Welcome to What the Duck, Season 4
and the guests for today’s episode are… Viru, catch it. – Mr. Anil, how are you?
– I’m fine. – Welcome, sir.
– Thank you. You know what? When he used to bowl,
I would field at short leg. Even if the ball went past
two feet away from me he would scream, “Viru, catch it!” I would tell him, “It was too far”,
but he’d still be mad at me. – Is that true?
– Viru: Of course. He’s right, because my intention was that I need to bowl
all the six balls at one batsman. Then I’d have a chance of getting him out. He would say this to me. This is the time to take revenge on him. Because, I’ll tell you one thing,
and he too feels bad about that… In 2008, Adelaide,
there were two people who got hundreds. Vikram: One was Sachin Tendulkar
and the other was Virender Sehwag. There was a third guy called Anil Kumble,
who could’ve got a hundred. Yes. Thanks to him. Vikram: He’s mentioned in many episodes that
you couldn’t get hundred because of him. – Vikram: It’s time to take revenge.
– Yes, that’s true. I was batting with Ishant Sharma and we had put together
about 50-run partnership. It was going well.
Ishant was batting well and so was I. I was at, I think around 86 at tea. When I came back at tea Viru clapped and asked me,
“What are you doing?” I replied, “What’s wrong?” Then he said, “Get quick runs.
Why are you defending? “You trust Ishant so much?” I said, “Look, everything’s
going fine so far.” Then he said I should start hitting fours and get to my hundred
before Ishant Sharma gets out. This thought was in my mind. So, after tea, I went back. And then in the first over,
I remember who the bowler was but he bowled slightly wide of the off stump. I went for the booming cover drive nick, caught behind, gone. 86 out. I would’ve probably got
my second test hundred but for Viru putting that thought in my head that I should go for boundaries
instead of taking singles. Sir, how many hundreds have you ruined? You know, that was my thought. I simply shared it with Mr. Anil. I just wanted him to hit fours. Because the game had started to get boring. You need some excitement
even in test matches, right? – Vikram: Correct.
– So that was his attitude. Well, you know, Mr. Anil has played
under my captaincy. Imagine this, Mr. Anil is bowling
from one end and from the other end, it’s Harbhajan Singh against Sri Lanka at Ahmedabad and both were not ready to give up the ball. The competition was so fierce that when I went to Mr. Anil,
he said, “Replace Harbhajan.” And when I asked Harbhajan to take a break he said, “Why don’t you ask him
to take a break?” I was stuck between them as a captain. They both weren’t ready to take a break and they had already bowled
10 to 12 overs each. Then I went to Tendulkar. I told him, “Neither of them
are listening to me. “Please tell any one of them to take a break “so that we can bring in a fast bowler.” Then Tendulkar went to Harbhajan… So, basically, whenever you wanted
to get things done you went to Tendulkar. It’s like asking God to fulfil your wishes. Sachin Tendulkar was indeed
the God of our team. Players used to listen to him. There’s no way I could’ve
asked Mr. Anil to stop bowling. He didn’t take orders
from even Sourav Ganguly. So I was nothing in comparison. I was a bit scared when he got out. He had helped me come back into the team.
So I thought, “What if he throws me out “now that he missed his hundred
because of me?” Virender: I was a bit scared. He gets angry with people only on the ground. But once he’s off ground,
we say “Captain Cool”, right? Actually, he’s Captain Cool off ground. Nowadays we attribute that a lot to MS Dhoni. Now let us come to that ultimate
question India wanted to ask you. “Anil Kumble, you don’t spin the ball “but how did you get 956 wickets?” Were you never bored or irritated by the fact that you didn’t get respect as a spinner? I think, you know,
for me, it really didn’t matter. At the end of the day,
what mattered was the last column as a bowler. And for me, I’m glad
that it took about 18 years for batsmen to realize that. That I don’t spin the ball. So… I mean, the ball can go only three
ways. Either it can come back to you,
or go away or go straight. I took the easier option, straight. So… But didn’t anyone treat you as a spinner?
Umpires, commentators? Well, there was an instance
in West Indies where… This was an umpire
and I don’t want to name him but he was there in the first test match. And he was also there
for the following test match. Probably, it was his first test match
umpiring spinners. Because he was not used to umpiring spinners from where he came from. He was there and then we didn’t get a couple of decisions
in our favor which I thought was out. It was a bat-pad, caught,
Laxman took the catch. Then a couple of LBWs which I thought were out. And then he was umpiring the next game too. So, I had to set him up. Tell him that, “Listen, when I bowl
and if it hits the pad “then it’s going to be out.” We invited him to the nets before the following game. And then I told Kaif… I said, “Kaif, let the ball hit your pad
a couple of times “when I bowl.” He said, “No problem, Mr. Anil.” I asked the umpire to stand there. Then I bowled the first ball
and Kaif got hit on the pad. Then I said, “How’s that?” He said, “Going down.”
I replied, “Absolutely right.” The next one, after a few balls I again bowled and hit him on the pad. I appealed, “What do you think?”
He said, “That looked out.” I said to myself, “The job’s done.” “The job’s done. See you in the match.” So, it helped. It helped in the next game where there were situations where… Perhaps, if I had not done this exercise I wouldn’t have got the decision
in my favor. Vikram: Wow! So you try and get this play
on the psyche as well. I think it’s important that you know, you have that conversation
with the umpire. Wonderful. You too must have
benefitted from umpires. Like they criticized him
for not spinning the ball they criticized you
for not moving your feet enough. Vikram: That increased your chances
of getting out LBW. Immensely… I have about three such instances. While fielding, I used to talk to umpires. I used to joke with them
and ask them if they needed anything and that I can arrange it for them
because I’m a superstar in India. I was successful in luring a few umpires. “Yes, I would like to have a good dinner.” I would talk to the restaurant owners and tell them not to take money
from the umpire. That would build my rapport with them.
Once I was batting at 90 at Mohali against Australia. Asad Rauf was the umpire. I played a cut shot and it was heard
in the dressing room of Mohali. Because there was hardly any crowd in Mohali
and I was at 90. There was a loud noise
and he said, “Not out.” Ricky Ponting rushed to me
and asked, “Did you nick it?” I said, “Yes.” He asked, “Why didn’t you walk?” I said, “You never walked.
Why are you asking me to do it? “Please ask the umpire.” So, he went to the umpire and said,
“Sehwag said that he nicked it.” So, Asad Rauf came to me with Ricky Ponting. He asked me if I nicked it.
I said, “No, he’s lying.” Mr. Anil, let’s talk about mind games. Talk about spinners and we are
instantly reminded of mind games. Your contemporary, Shane Warne, famously said that it’s not about
how many deliveries you have it’s about how many deliveries
the batsman thinks you have. So, again, he was playing
with the mind of the batsman. I’m sure you also did it. I’m sure batsmen were very scared that they might get out LBW to you. And you too must be doing
something to their psyche. Do you remember any such incident? Yeah, I mean, there have been many batsmen
who have got the wood on me. And similarly, probably,
at least at the start of the innings some of the batsmen didn’t want to face me. There was one instance during the IPL. This was in, I think, 2010. It was against Deccan Chargers. RCB was playing and I was the captain. Herschelle Gibbs and Adam Gilchrist
walked into the middle and I was ready to bowl at Adam Gilchrist. I said, “Look, if Gilly is on strike
then I’m going to bowl.” So, I took my cap off and waited to see
which side they would go. So Gilly stood there, and he said,
“Okay. Herschelle, take the strike.” I thought, “No…” I mean, you only have four overs and you want to bowl the maximum
at who you want to bowl. So I kept holding the cap out,
waiting for Gilly to take strike. He was just waiting for somebody else to bowl
rather than me. Then I finally gave up and asked Dale Steyn to bowl. I said, “Dale, you start off.” So that was the mind game. And subsequently, RCB was in semi finals and we lost to Mumbai Indians. And we played against Deccan Chargers
for the third place. So, it’s Gilly, again. I bowled the first over
and Gilly was on strike. He said, “It doesn’t matter today,
I’m taking the strike.” In fact, I bowled a full toss
or a short ball, I don’t remember. He hit it straight to the only man
at deep square leg straight into his hands and then walked off. Might as well just face him, get out and go. There were only a few bowlers
who loved to bowl at Gilchrist. Because when I was the captain
of Delhi Daredevils the bowler said,
“Well, let me bowl the second over.” And I never understood why
he wanted to bowl the second over. – That’s because Gilly was on strike.
– Okay. So, Mr. Anil was the only bowler
who wanted to bowl at Gilchrist when he opened the batting. Because I had seen
that when Gibbs or Gilly took strike the bowlers were scared. They didn’t want to bowl to them. – Amazing.
– Virender: It was quite tough. Have you played mind games too, as a spinner? – Virender: As a bowler?
– You too were a great spinner. Vikram: One of your captains had asked you
to bowl an important over. Very important spinner… I was not a great spinner
and please don’t call me so. No matter what you say we won the 2008 Perth Test match
because of you. Anil Kumble was the captain of Indian team
and we needed a wicket badly. He decides to give you the ball
and you got Gilchrist out round the wicket. I’m sure you too have played some mind games. Well, I was just thinking that… Mr. Anil gave me the ball and said “Only 4-5 overs to go, so don’t give runs.” Because they were having a good partnership and were chasing around 300 runs, perhaps. I said, “Okay, I’ll try to bowl on his legs,
even if it doesn’t turn “there’s no problem.” So I constantly bowled on his legs. Gilchrist swept, and luckily the ball
turned and hit the wicket. But mind games started after that
when Bret Lee came to bat. Ganguly kept on insisting us to position players
at short leg and backward. Since Mr. Anil was the captain, I told him that it’s not Indian conditions
for the ball to turn and go there so let’s go for the silly point. Then Mr. Anil said,
“Sourav, you go there. Stand there!” And I was at silly point. Next ball, Bret Lee bat-pad
caught at silly point. We hugged each other in joy. You know, every cricketer
has his own way of getting motivated. Like, McGrath, before every tour,
he would say 5-0. And once I had asked Ricky Ponting “Don’t you think it’s not nice to say…” He said that he gets motivation from that
and he can’t do anything about it. Some get motivated when you provoke them. What got you motivated? Would you also get motivated by such statements made around you? Generally, you try and pick up certain points where you feel
that you want to achieve something or prove yourself to someone. But not necessarily you always
pick up those kind of things. But there was one such incident when the entire team came together and decided to show the South Africans
what we are made of. Because Ray Jennings, who I worked
very closely with in RCB… In the first test match,
South Africa drew that match. – Andrew Hall came as a…
– Vikram: Kanpur. Yes, replacement opener. He got 160 and saved the game
for South Africa. And the next test match was at Calcutta. Before we went to Eden Gardens Ray in his media statement had said, “The Indians take pillow
to the ground.” Because he felt that we were,
you know, casual, lazy on the ground and slow.
But I don’t know what he meant by that. So, we won the test match. And then we all decided to get a pillow and put our signatures on it. We wrote a lovely message saying “Thanks for letting us know.
Enjoy your flight back home…” – You know…
– Sleep well… “It’s a long flight back home.
Enjoy your flight.” – We all signed.
– We all signed and then sent it to Ray. You know, in Calcutta, both the dressing
rooms are opposite to each other. – So we just sent…
– Beautiful. So that is something I certainly remember. And, Viru, have you ever scored runs
or taken wickets in an act of revenge? In 2007 World Cup, we were
out of the tournament after three matches. And I think, the culprit was Bangladesh. In 2011 World Cup, we were playing our first match at Bangladesh. Then I went to the press conference and said, “It’s our revenge game “because Bangladesh beat us in 2007 World Cup “and we were out of the World Cup
because of that loss. “So now, this is a revenge game.” I made this statement, but we had
no team meetings or any such thing. The message was clear
that we have to beat Bangladesh. So I was batting quite consciously
because I had made this statement. I had to score in that match
to avoid embarrassment. So I wanted to make at least 50 runs. Perhaps, it was my day
and I hit six on the very first ball and then I went on to make 175. And then, perhaps,
I was batting with Virat Kohli and told him that there’s a limit
to what Team Bangladesh can chase. In Hindi, it’s called “Aukaat”.
That is, they can’t chase more than 320. If we can get that score, it doesn’t matter
who bowls, we will still win the match. So we ended up scoring about 350 runs
and won the match. Luckily the ball hit my knee
and I didn’t do the fielding. – Luckily…
– So, I… Yes, luckily. Otherwise, it would’ve not been possible
to step out because of the new rule which didn’t allow
players to stay out for more than 8 minutes. But I did bat with the help of a runner. – So, perhaps…
– It doesn’t matter. All that a runner had to do was, stand.
There was no need for him to run. – Vikram: He just had to watch Viru play.
– Yeah. Anybody would run for Viru
because they didn’t have to run. He would just stand there
and keep hitting boundaries – and the runner would…
– Must be frustrating for a batsman. He just had to walk from square leg
to the non-striker end. Back then, Virat Kohli was new to the team. He wasn’t hitting sixes
and I challenged him to hit one. Then he hit couple of sixes
and proved that he could do it. – Look where Virat Kohli is now.
– Look at him now. You’re a generous teacher. He too scored 100, but nobody remembers that. He too scored 100 in that game,. You announced your retirement
during Nagpur test, didn’t you? – No, it was Delhi.
– Vikram: Delhi test? He didn’t play in that test.
We went to Nagpur, so that was his last. I heard that there was
a great party at Nagpur. We had to celebrate
because two of us were retiring and then Sachin had completed a milestone Laxman had played his 100th test match and we had won the series against Australia and MS had officially become captain
of the Indian team in a test match, for the first time. Because in the previous two test matches,
he came in because I couldn’t be
a part of the team. Yes… – For the first time…
– Great celebrations? Great celebrations. We enjoyed it. – You tell him.
– No, you tell him. Go ahead. Mr. Anil never had a drink in his life
until that day. But we all made Sachin Tendulkar,
Rahul Dravid, VVS Laxman and Anil Kumble stand up on the chair… – Vikram: Oh, God!
– …and gulp down the shots. After that,
Mr. Anil and Rahul Dravid’s reaction was “What have you made us drink!” There are only few good people
left in this country and you’re ruining them. – We couldn’t have celebrated without drinks.
– Vikram: Absolutely. Perhaps, that night was… I’m never going to forget that night because I consider it
my greatest accomplishment. – We achieved great things as a team.
– Vikram: Amazing! We all talk about Indian Team being
number one under Dhoni’s captaincy but actually, Mr. Anil dreamt of being
number one in test cricket. When he became the captain,
he played only test cricket and he wanted Indian Team
to be number one test team. By the time we came close to that dream,
Mr. Anil had retired. If he had stayed on for one more series we would’ve been number one team
under his captaincy. I mean, he retired happily,
but he would’ve been much happier if Indian Team had become
number one under his captaincy. But that night, nobody gave any excuses. Unforgettable. I think, it was one of those things where – the camaraderie was obviously…
– Vikram: Unbelievable. Unbelievable, and then the celebration
and then, you know, the send-off – so to speak…
– Vikram: Epic send-off. Yeah, obviously, two of us
were leaving after that. And that was our last series. I had retired one test match prior to that and Sourav was retiring after that. It wasn’t just one peg.
They had peg after peg. I don’t know. I don’t remember what happened. – Mr. Anil was sloshed after two shots.
– I don’t remember what happened. I don’t remember after that. – Anil Kumble started spinning.
– Anil: I remember… I certainly remember that, you know, yes,
it was the first time I indulged. – But after that I don’t know. Once we had…
– That’s so funny, right? You’re saying that he lost control
after two pegs and he’s saying that it was
the best night to remember. No, we have the footage of that – because we recorded it. We have the video.
– Yes, I watched it. – They showed it to me.
– Virender: We showed it to him. It was the best celebration
that I was part of. I rate it higher than
2011 and 2007 World Cup celebrations. Perhaps, the best celebrations was
when Mr. Anil and Sourav Ganguly retired. – It was the best night for us.
– Amazing. I respect Mr. Anil a lot
because according to me the best match winner for India
in test cricket is Mr. Anil. Vikram: Wow. – He’s the best.
– No, it’s Viru. He changed the way
people thought about Indian Cricket. Because that is the reason that… When we wanted to pick the team
for Australia in 2007-2008 he was out of the team for almost a year. – Yeah. Six months.
– Six months. And he had not scored much runs
in first class cricket. But I wanted Viru in the team because I felt that the kind of pressure he puts
by his sheer presence on the opposition – is something that you need to…
– Vikram: Fear, basically. Yeah, fear. And then you could see that I mean, he bats one session,
then you’re in the game. Because that destroys the confidence
of the opposition. And also makes… You know, for people sitting
and watching Viru bat he would make it look very easy for everyone. They would say, “It looks like an easy pitch. “We too can go and score runs.” I think he not only gave confidence
to the team but also instilled fear in the opposition. They would wonder, “What’s going on here?” – Wonderful!
– “He’s taking the game away from us.” I think that was Viru and I think, he doesn’t get
the kind of credit that he should. He richly deserves that. I told you about the 2008 trip, didn’t I? I didn’t play in the first two test matches. During those two test matches I followed Mr. Anil like his shadow and pleaded him to take me
in the playing eleven. He said, “Viru, Yuvraj has scored 150
in the previous match “how can I drop him?” I replied, “Look, Rahul Dravid
and Wasim Jaffer scored “just 20 runs in 20 overs.
I would’ve scored that in two overs.” I was begging him to give me a chance. He told me to wait for two test matches. Then we went to Sydney Test. I was quite happy with
what happened at Sydney test. Since he was the captain,
I thought we will go back. I thought we would head back
after two test matches. Since it was my comeback match if I had not scored runs,
my career would’ve ended. It was a very tough moment. As an observer of the game, I was there and you know, I too was feeling so tense and you were maintaining that general kind of a presence.
Then in the press conference you know, after Nehru’s speech in 1947 Anil Kumble’s lines made it to the headlines
of so many papers. “Only one team played
in the spirit of the game.” But you must have been a little tense, too? Considering the diplomatic issues,
how did you relax at that time? No, but I think Viru’s right I probably should have
played him right from the start. Unfortunately, the warm up game that we had also got rained out. So, we had only one warm-up game in Melbourne before the first test at MCG. Perhaps if we had played that and Viru had got some runs then maybe, I would have done something… In hindsight, he should’ve started off
the Australian tour but Sydney was pretty tough. So what we decided, you know,
after everything was done. We were asked to stay back in Sydney. Because we had to travel to Canberra
before we played the Perth test match. So there was a practice game
again in Canberra. But we were all stationed in Sydney
for a couple of days. We were asked to wait. I said, “If we wait, we will all be
cooked up in the room.” Anxiety attacks. Yeah. And also once you
step out, there’s media. You don’t want any situation
which can flare up. So we decided that let’s all…
We loved playing volleyball. – All of us.
– Vikram: The famous volleyball. Famous. It all started in 2003 during the World Cup in South Africa. We all decided to go to Bondi Beach
and play beach volleyball amongst ourselves. That was perhaps the greatest volleyball match
that was broadcast live. The Indian Cricket Team
playing beach volleyball. Because there were some
50 or 60 media present there – who were…
– Vikram: Watching the team play… Watching the team play volleyball
and then giving live commentary. Like who’s talking to whom. Vikram: “What do you think?” “Harbhajan Singh isn’t talking to anyone.
He’s all alone.” “He is upset with what has happened.”
I think, this… And for the first time, the whole of India
saw the Indian Team shirtless. Not the whole of India. Not all the players. Only those guys who could
take their shirt off. I think, you know, in the current Indian Team I guess, everybody would love
to take their shirts off. Vikram: Given an opportunity. Yeah, but not the team we had back then… We had two groups, one playing with their
shirts on and the other without them. Yeah, that was the… – Virender: Shirtless versus shirt-guys.
– Shirt versus shirtless. But it was, like I said, it was
one of those tense moments but the team responded exceptionally well. You know, the most dreadful thing
for a cricketer is scoring a duck. But on this show, we celebrate the duck. This segment is called Duck Tales. So tell me, what’s your most
memorable duck that you’ve scored… First tell us how many ducks we have scored. You’ve made 31 ducks and he’s made 35. Thank God. I have scored less than him. Otherwise, he would’ve blamed me
for surpassing him. – At least I have something better.
– Virender: That’s correct. I have already told you
one story about my duck. But I think the most memorable one is perhaps, after I scored 309 in Pakistan after that I was playing
in the third test match. I had a severe back pain. I told Sourav that my back was hurting
and I won’t be able to bat. Sourav said, “I just want you to go
and stand there. “I just want your name on the paper “as that will scare the Pakistani players. “It doesn’t matter
even if you get out on zero.” Sourav jinxed it for me
and I got out on zero. – The innings you opened with Parthiv Patel?
– Virender: That’s right. I told myself that I’m not going
to let the kid take strike. You know, Akash Chopra
opened batting before me. I played a flick on the first ball.
Got caught at gully and I was out. My first class career started with a duck. It was a king pair on debut. But you must have
taken a few wickets. Two wickets. – It’s good…
– Two wickets. Good start. But I scored zero in both the innings. Vikram: So, you got a pair and two wickets. – Vikram: You balanced it.
– King pair! – It’s not just a pair, it’s king pair.
– Vikram: King pair. There’s a research which says that the number of sixes hit
in modern day cricket is actually, directly correlated
to the number of matches the team wins. So, if you hit more sixes,
you actually win more matches and therefore a T20 Final as well. Basically, modern day cricket
is about strength and that is what we are going to test. – Now?
– Vikram: It’s not mental strength, it’s physical strength. – You mean, hitting sixes?
– Vikram: Yeah, exactly. – An equivalent of it.
– What are you trying… This segment is called Hammer Game. – Sir, you’ve to pick up a hammer…
– That’s fine. – …and hit it on a surface.
– That’s fine. I’ve undergone two shoulder surgeries
and Mr. Anil only one. – No…
– He has had only one. Well, you both have undergone
shoulder surgeries. I have undergone two and he, just one. – All right.
– So I should get two chances. Sir, two triple hundreds versus 956 wickets. And how many sixes? But, sir, what about your accuracy? – You too were equally strong.
– No… – Let’s try it, okay?
– Okay. – Let’s find out.
– Let’s try. This is the famous hammer game. On the last season, there was a tough fight. Rohit Sharma scored the highest
with 919 points. You must have thought it’s AB de Villiers,
but no, Rohit Sharma scored the highest. I defeated Sachin Tendulkar. But you defeated Sachin Tendulkar. – Vikram: He scored 917. Well done.
– Well done. You have to score more than 917. – So, you go first.
– All right. I’ll do it. Very good. I told you,
Anil Kumble is selfless. – Anil Kumble is selfless.
– Yes, right. Let’s go for it. Nice. Well done. I think it won’t exceed 700. Vikram: Well done… – Go up…
– Vikram: Very good. – Vikram: 893!
– Go up! Vikram: Well done! Sir, don’t be defensive. You’ve always been aggressive.
Don’t play defensive now. Do you really think I’ll play defensive? Come on. Sir, he hit it with full strength. – It’s going to touch 1000.
– Enough… Well done. Just about… – Sir, you did it.
– It’s my day. You’ve broken your last year’s record. – Well done. Congratulations.
– Very good, Viru. I have to look after my opening batsman. Anil: This is mine. Very good. I see, that’s another duck.
Okay, well done. Viru… He’s using different colors. Vikram: Amazing! – Vikram: It’s colorful… Nice.
– Of course, I’ll make it beautiful. Please draw eyes for the duck. – Sure.
– It’s yellow, isn’t it? – Vikram: Is it suffering from jaundice?
– Anil: I’m done. Well done! Vikram: Beautiful. – For the emotional quotient…
– Advantage of scoring two ducks.